Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Having It Both Ways As A Jehovah’s Witness.
From the now defunct site thejehovahswitnesses.com
Increase in JWs evidence of divine blessing
When people are joining the JWs in large numbers, they say it is “evidence of Jehovah’s blessing”. (Watchtower July 1, 2002, p.13, paragraph 17-19)
But … when the numbers are down they claim it’s because “the greater number has cooled off”.
JWs can take blood, but can’t donate any blood
JWs are allowed to take every single component of blood (including the ones that transmit diseases) from other people and the general blood supply.
But … JWs are NOT allowed to donate any blood back to the very system they take blood from!
Kids dying from no blood
They brag about how many JW kids face death because of their stance on blood, including putting the kid’s pictures on the cover of the Awake magazine. (Awake! 1994 May 22 p.2 Youths Who Put God First 3-15)
But … JWs say Satan is persecuting them when they are labeled as child killers. (Watchtower 1998 December 1 p.14 par. 4 Defending Our Faith)
Strong Families
If someone wants to leave the JWs (like me), they are labeled as apostates and shunned - even by family members.(Watchtower 1998 December 1 p.17 Defending Our Faith)
But … JWs say Satan is persecuting them when they are labeled as a religion that breaks up families.(Kingdom Ministry August 2002 pp.3-4)
Interpreting the bible accurately
JWs condemn the Catholic Church as arrogant for saying only the Catholic Church can accurately interpret the bible. (The Watchtower, 7/1/1943, p. 201.)
But … JWs brag that the Watchtower Society is the only one that can accurately interpret the Bible. (The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981; The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587)
Pedophiles
JWs condemned the Catholic Church for decades for not owning up to their pedophile problems. (Any “Watching The World” in the 80’s & 90’s)
But … the JWs have never apologized for their pedophile problems. (The Catholics DID apologize!)
Apostate Literature
JWs condemn the Catholic Church for not allowing their followers to read or study with JWs. (Year Book 1988 p.100 Ireland)
But … JWs are instructed to promptly throw away any literature from other “apostate” religions. (Watchtower 1986 March 15 pp.15-20 Allow No Place for the Devil!)
New Light
JWs condemn the Catholic Church’s “new light” doctrine, saying it makes the Catholic Church unreliable. (g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People)
But … JWs excuse for all their false prophecies and flip-flops is “new light”.
From the now defunct site thejehovahswitnesses.com
Increase in JWs evidence of divine blessing
When people are joining the JWs in large numbers, they say it is “evidence of Jehovah’s blessing”. (Watchtower July 1, 2002, p.13, paragraph 17-19)
But … when the numbers are down they claim it’s because “the greater number has cooled off”.
JWs can take blood, but can’t donate any blood
JWs are allowed to take every single component of blood (including the ones that transmit diseases) from other people and the general blood supply.
But … JWs are NOT allowed to donate any blood back to the very system they take blood from!
Kids dying from no blood
They brag about how many JW kids face death because of their stance on blood, including putting the kid’s pictures on the cover of the Awake magazine. (Awake! 1994 May 22 p.2 Youths Who Put God First 3-15)
But … JWs say Satan is persecuting them when they are labeled as child killers. (Watchtower 1998 December 1 p.14 par. 4 Defending Our Faith)
Strong Families
If someone wants to leave the JWs (like me), they are labeled as apostates and shunned - even by family members.(Watchtower 1998 December 1 p.17 Defending Our Faith)
But … JWs say Satan is persecuting them when they are labeled as a religion that breaks up families.(Kingdom Ministry August 2002 pp.3-4)
Interpreting the bible accurately
JWs condemn the Catholic Church as arrogant for saying only the Catholic Church can accurately interpret the bible. (The Watchtower, 7/1/1943, p. 201.)
But … JWs brag that the Watchtower Society is the only one that can accurately interpret the Bible. (The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981; The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587)
Pedophiles
JWs condemned the Catholic Church for decades for not owning up to their pedophile problems. (Any “Watching The World” in the 80’s & 90’s)
But … the JWs have never apologized for their pedophile problems. (The Catholics DID apologize!)
Apostate Literature
JWs condemn the Catholic Church for not allowing their followers to read or study with JWs. (Year Book 1988 p.100 Ireland)
But … JWs are instructed to promptly throw away any literature from other “apostate” religions. (Watchtower 1986 March 15 pp.15-20 Allow No Place for the Devil!)
New Light
JWs condemn the Catholic Church’s “new light” doctrine, saying it makes the Catholic Church unreliable. (g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People)
But … JWs excuse for all their false prophecies and flip-flops is “new light”.
Sunday, September 21, 2008
Professor Julius Mantey's Letters to the Watchtower Society.
Dear Sirs:
I have a copy of your letter addressed to Caris in Santa Ana, California,
and I am writing to express my disagreement with statements made in that
letter, as well as in quotations you have made from the Dana-Mantey Greek
Grammar.
(1) Your statement: "their work allows for the rendering found in the
Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures at John 1:1,"
There is no statement in our grammar that was ever meant to imply that
"a god" was a permissible translation in John 1:1.
A. We had no "rule" to argue in support of the trinity.
B. Neither did we state that we did have such intention. We were simply
delineating the facts inherent in Biblical language.
C. You quotation from p. 148 (3) was a paragraph under the heading: "With
the subject in a Copulative Sentence." Two examples occur here to
illustrate that "the article points out the subject in these
examples." But we made no statement in this paragraph about the
predicate except that, "as it stands the other persons of the trinity
may be implied ;in theos." And isn't that the opposite of what your
translation "a god" infers? You quoted me out of context. On pages
139 and 140 (VI) in our grammar we stated: "without the article,
theos signifies divine essence...'theos en ho logos' emphasizes
Christ's participation in the essence of the divine nature." Our
interpretation is in agreement with that in NEB and TED: "What God
was, the Word was"; and with that of Barclay: "The nature of the Word
was the same as the nature of God," which you quoted in you letter to
Caris.
(2) Since Colwell's and Harner's article in JBL, especially that of Harner,
it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word
was a god." Word-order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering.
(3) Your quotation of Colwell's rule is inadequate because it quotes only a
part of his findings. You did not quote this strong assertion: "A
predicate nominative which precedes the verb cannot be translated as an
indefinite or a 'qualitative' noun solely because of the absence of the
article."
(4) Prof. Harner, Vol 92:1 in JBL, has gone beyond Colwell's research and
has discovered that anarthrous predicate nouns preceding the verb
function primarily to express the nature or character of the subject.
He found this true in 53 passages in the Gospel of John and 8 in the
Gospel of Mark. Both scholars wrote that when indefiniteness was
intended that gospel writers regularly placed the predicate noun after
the verb, and both Colwell and Harner have stated that theos in John
1:1 is not indefinite and should not be translated "a god." Watchtower
writers appear to be the only ones advocating such a translation now.
The evidence appears to be 99% against them.
(5) Your statement in your letter that the sacred text itself should guide
one and "not just someone's rule book." We agree with you. But our
study proves that Jehovah's Witnesses do the opposite of that whenever
the "sacred text" differs with their heretical beliefs. For example the
translation of kolasis as cutting off when punishment is the only meaning
cited in the lexicons for it. The mistranslation of ego eimi as "I have
been" in John 8:58, the addition of "for all time" in Heb. 9:27 when
nothing in the Greek New Testament support is. The attempt to belittle
Christ by mistranslating arche tes kriseos "beginning of the creation"
when he is magnified as the "creator of all things" (John 1:2) and as
"equal with God" (Phil. 2:6) before he humbled himself and lived a human
body on earth. Your quotation of "The father is greater than I am, (John
14:28) to prove that Jesus was not equal to God overlooks the fact stated
in Phil 2:6-8. When Jesus said that he was still in his voluntary state
of humiliation. That state ended when he ascended to heaven. Why the
attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a
comma after "today" in Luke 23:43 when in the Greek, Latin, German and
all English translations except yours, even in the Greek in you KIT, the
comma occurs after lego (I say) - "Today you will be with me in
Paradise." 2 Cor 5:8, "to be out of the body and at home with the Lord."
These passages teach that the redeemed go immediately to heaven after death,
which does not agree with your teachings that death ends all life until the
resurrection. (Ps. 23:6 and Heb 1:10)
The afore mentioned are only a few examples of Watchtower mistranslations and
perversions of Gods Word.
In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me
out of context, I herewith request you not to quote the Manual Grammar of
the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years. Also
that you not quote it or me in any of your publications from this time on.
Also that you publicly and immediately apologize in the Watchtower magazine,
since my words had no relevance to the absence of the article before theos
in John 1:1. And please write to Caris and state that you misused and
misquoted my "rule."
On the page before the preface in the grammar are these words: "All rights
reserved - no part of this book may be reproduced in any form without
permission in writing from the publisher."
If you have such permission, please send me a photo-copy of it. If you do
not heed these requests you will suffer the consequences.
Regretfully yours,
Julius R. Mantey
Saturday, September 20, 2008
Jim Penton's Letter to Watchtower President Milton G. Henschel.
August 11, 1995
Milton G. Henschel, President
Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, New York
U.S.A. 11201
AN OPEN LETTER
Dear Mr. Henschel:
Yesterday I obtained a copy of the August 22 Awake! magazine with its articles on "The Holocaust: Who Spoke Out?". On reading the articles in that issue of Awake!, I was thoroughly shocked and disgusted.
The Watch Tower Society has long attempted a cover-up of the most dishonest sort. While your organization properly censures other religious communities for their compromises with and support of Nazism, it tries to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses alone, never were guilty of such compromise. Yet history tells a different story. The "Erklärung" or "Declaration" published by the Watch Tower Society at the Berlin Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses in June 1933 is, in itself, clear evidence that the Society's president, Judge J. F. Rutherford, as accompanied by N. H. Knorr, manifested anti-Semitism, hostility to Great Britain and the United States, and to the League of Nations. Furthermore, the "Erklärung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.
In addition to the "Erklärung", there is the evidence of the Society's letter to Hitler sent on or immediately following June 25, 1933, and the public statements made about the Berlin convention by Konrad Franke in lectures throughout Germany some years ago. All of this I have made public in my book Apocalypse Delayed (1985)-which I know has been read at Watch Tower headquarters both from court documents and inside reports-and in the spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest. So it is impossible for responsible members of your organization not to know the facts. Thus the August 22 Awake! is nothing short of an historical abomination.
I am aware of the feeble attempt of the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses to exculpate Judge Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society in Brooklyn by claiming that the Society's German branch overseer, Paul Balzereit, "weakened" the "Erklärung". But the "Erklärung" or "Declaration" was published in both the German and English versions of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses as an official statement of the Watch Tower Society. So it is impossible to believe that it was not sanctioned by Rutherford and the man who succeeded him as the Society's president, N. H. Knorr. Therefore, the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses of that time attempted to commit what amounted to spiritual whoredom with the Third Reich in the fashion of the two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah of Ezekiel 23, according to the Society's own teachings.
Although I do not expect an answer from you, nor do I want one, to make certain that you, personally, are aware of the facts, I am sending you the following materials:
(1) A photocopy of the original "Erklärung"
(2) A photocopy of the "Erklärung" as it appeared in the German edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;
(3) A photocopy of the "Declaration" as it appears in the English edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;
(4) A photocopy of the Hitler letter, plus an English translation thereof;
(5) A copy of the Spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest.
Since I am well aware that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, of which you are a senior member, is carrying on what amounts to a "Big Lie" campaign (1) to make Jehovah's Witnesses appear to be God's faithful and discreet slave class on earth and (2) to discredit other religions, as a former Jehovah's Witness, a professional historian, and as a Christian who believes that God has no need of our lies, I feel forced to expose the facts to the general public. Hence, I am sending copies of this letter, plus the above listed documentation, to both religious and secular publications throughout the United States and Canada. I will, of course, also make them available to persons in other lands so that they may be made known wherever possible.
In closing, Mr. Henschel, I would beg the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, who carry heavy responsibility before God and humankind, to come clean and admit the facts. Hypocrisy and falsifying the historical record are serious sins, as I am sure you are aware.
Sincerely yours,
M. James Penton, PhD
Professor Emeritus
August 11, 1995
Milton G. Henschel, President
Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, New York
U.S.A. 11201
AN OPEN LETTER
Dear Mr. Henschel:
Yesterday I obtained a copy of the August 22 Awake! magazine with its articles on "The Holocaust: Who Spoke Out?". On reading the articles in that issue of Awake!, I was thoroughly shocked and disgusted.
The Watch Tower Society has long attempted a cover-up of the most dishonest sort. While your organization properly censures other religious communities for their compromises with and support of Nazism, it tries to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses alone, never were guilty of such compromise. Yet history tells a different story. The "Erklärung" or "Declaration" published by the Watch Tower Society at the Berlin Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses in June 1933 is, in itself, clear evidence that the Society's president, Judge J. F. Rutherford, as accompanied by N. H. Knorr, manifested anti-Semitism, hostility to Great Britain and the United States, and to the League of Nations. Furthermore, the "Erklärung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.
In addition to the "Erklärung", there is the evidence of the Society's letter to Hitler sent on or immediately following June 25, 1933, and the public statements made about the Berlin convention by Konrad Franke in lectures throughout Germany some years ago. All of this I have made public in my book Apocalypse Delayed (1985)-which I know has been read at Watch Tower headquarters both from court documents and inside reports-and in the spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest. So it is impossible for responsible members of your organization not to know the facts. Thus the August 22 Awake! is nothing short of an historical abomination.
I am aware of the feeble attempt of the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses to exculpate Judge Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society in Brooklyn by claiming that the Society's German branch overseer, Paul Balzereit, "weakened" the "Erklärung". But the "Erklärung" or "Declaration" was published in both the German and English versions of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses as an official statement of the Watch Tower Society. So it is impossible to believe that it was not sanctioned by Rutherford and the man who succeeded him as the Society's president, N. H. Knorr. Therefore, the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses of that time attempted to commit what amounted to spiritual whoredom with the Third Reich in the fashion of the two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah of Ezekiel 23, according to the Society's own teachings.
Although I do not expect an answer from you, nor do I want one, to make certain that you, personally, are aware of the facts, I am sending you the following materials:
(1) A photocopy of the original "Erklärung"
(2) A photocopy of the "Erklärung" as it appeared in the German edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;
(3) A photocopy of the "Declaration" as it appears in the English edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;
(4) A photocopy of the Hitler letter, plus an English translation thereof;
(5) A copy of the Spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest.
Since I am well aware that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, of which you are a senior member, is carrying on what amounts to a "Big Lie" campaign (1) to make Jehovah's Witnesses appear to be God's faithful and discreet slave class on earth and (2) to discredit other religions, as a former Jehovah's Witness, a professional historian, and as a Christian who believes that God has no need of our lies, I feel forced to expose the facts to the general public. Hence, I am sending copies of this letter, plus the above listed documentation, to both religious and secular publications throughout the United States and Canada. I will, of course, also make them available to persons in other lands so that they may be made known wherever possible.
In closing, Mr. Henschel, I would beg the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, who carry heavy responsibility before God and humankind, to come clean and admit the facts. Hypocrisy and falsifying the historical record are serious sins, as I am sure you are aware.
Sincerely yours,
M. James Penton, PhD
Professor Emeritus
Thursday, September 18, 2008
Here is the transcript from a interview with Br JR Brown from Bethel by WNYC.
New York Radio Station WNYC (AM 820 and 93.9 FM) Friday May 10, 2002 10:40 to 11:00 AM
[Radio Host Brian Lehrer's telephone interview with J. R. Brown, Director of the Office of Public Information for Jehovah's Witnesses]
Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. One of the fastest growing religions is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Many people in our area of course have seen Jehovah's Witnesses going door-to-door, or selling the newspaper Watchtower on street corners and we though it would be interesting to find out a little more about who they are, and what they say they are all about. So with me now is J. R. Brown, Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mr. Brown, welcome to WNYC
Brown: Thank you, good morning Brian, how are you?
Lehrer: OK, thanks. First, how fast is the religion growing, and where?
Brown: Well, we're growing internationally, that's in, now, 111 branches and 235 lands around the world. We're spending much time helping people with the bible, about 3.2 million hours every day. And so we're gaining in publishers at about 1.7% as to average publishers for the year.
Lehrer: So how many members does that mean you have at this point?
Brown: Now, around the world, now, we have better than 6 million active members. By active we mean someone who actually joins with us in our work of evangelizing, and helping others in their bible study and learning about a Christian way of living.
Lehrer: And from what I've read, your membership was maybe 44,000 in 1928, 6 million, as you say, today; projections are it will double again by 2020. Is most of that taking place in the United States, or what particular other countries?
Brown: No, we're growing very rapidly in countries throughout the Central- and South-America area, the Caribbean and African lands. In other words, our evangelizing work is very intense all around the globe.
Lehrer: I've read that the Witnesses, the Mormons, and the Seventh Day Adventists, all espouse very similar "end of the world" philosophies. Would you put it that way?
Brown: Well, not exactly, because while we do believe that we're in the last days, and that the time is due for God to render his judgment, we put the emphasis on Good News. That what is ahead for mankind is a paradise earth, one in which God's Kingdom, that Christians pray for, will take over the control and government of the earth, and bring blessings to mankind.
Lehrer: What does that mean, that we're in "the last days?" as you put it?
Brown: Well, the bible has spoken about a period of time, just like our own, when conditions would be bad, they would go from bad to worse. All the major news stories now, for the most part, can find some biblical setting, and this constitutes "a sign" that in particular Jesus gave, or the prophets mention certain things. But this was to be evidence that we were living in the last days, or some refer to it as the "end times" but either way it was a time in which God would render his judgment with respects earthly affairs.
Lehrer: So does the Jehovah Witness organization have a position on how many days we have left? Do you have a number?
Brown: No! We do not have a number. That number is not given in the scripture, in fact Jesus said himself just the opposite, that no man knows the day or hour.
Lehrer: So you call it "last days" but this could go on for a few thousand years.
Brown: Well, you see, when you say "last days" that itself implies a short period of time. There are limitations. We feel it is very near, because conditions are falling in line with exactly what the bible said, as well as the behavior of people continues to deteriorate. And all of this constitutes evidence that we are in the "last days".
Lehrer: Of course, if you are growing as fast as the organization appears to be, delaying the end of the world might be in your interest.
Brown: Well, in other words, it's not totally up to us. God is involved, and his judgment. We are to keep working at matters, helping people to get in, but in the final analysis, Jehovah God renders his judgment and he decides who will inherit this everlasting future.
Lehrer: This is WNYC, AM 820 and 93.9 FM. My guest is J. R. Brown, he's the Director of the Office of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. We invite Jehovah's Witnesses to call up and tell us why you've chosen that particular religion or anyone else with questions, at 212-267-WNYC, 267-9692. What's the door-to-door thing, does that really work?
Brown: Well, that's the way Jesus started his disciples, and it is very effective. Nothing replaces a one-on-one contact with persons. And it is a neighborly expression of our love and how we feel about people. We have something that's good, that helps us in our life, and we want to share it. So we go to our neighbors and make a personal visit.
Lehrer: Um, is there a kind of percentage, you know, like do you expect, the first conversation is not going to do it, but you're planting a seed, and people come back to you in a year, or how would you say it usually works?
Brown: It works both ways. Sometimes people listen to us, and after a period of time, they want more information. Some persons you meet in just the right circumstance, they need something spiritual in their life, they've been looking for it, so they're will to sit down with us and study the bible. And we don't make converts, where on the spot someone decides they will become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to study the bible, and understand its teachings, and embrace them, and then live by these teachings. And then you would qualify to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lehrer: Let me take a phone call for you. Here is Charles in Ridgewood. You're on WNYC
Caller: Yeah hi, um I was just wondering if you had any statistical, like if you did a statistical analysis of the percentage of minorities that are Jehovah's Witnesses?
Lehrer: In the United States? People of color in the United States?
Caller: In the United Sates, yes.
Brown: We have not done any statistical information on that, because our effort is to embrace all peoples, all languages, all races. And of course in the United States, you have many opportunities to do that. We sponsor foreign language congregations, and this helps people from wherever they come. So we've not tried to make a distinction as to minority population as compared with others.
Lehrer: But you do demographic marketing, as one would think any sophisticated organization would, right? For example, one of my neighbors in my building is a Jehovah's Witness, very nice guy, very thoughtful man, a deep thinker, even, I would say, and he's Dominican, and he goes door-to-door every Sunday, and he concentrates in Spanish-speaking communities in upper Manhattan.
Brown: Yes, and that would be appropriate. In other words, he would be serving the interests of the Spanish-speaking congregation, and that's appropriate. But we haven't tried to make a distinction as to how many Latinos, Hispanics, or black, or white Witnesses there are in any given area, because our message appeals to all people. So in whatever language they speak it, it's going to be the same. So our emphasis is on what unites, rather then what divides.
Lehrer: Frank in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC
Caller: I'd like to ask the caller if he allows his members, or the members of Jehovah's Witnesses, to vote in elections?
Lehrer: For what?
Caller: For Mayor, for City Council, for President, for Congress, for anything.
Brown: We do not form regulations that require other people to live up to what is stated. We teach them the bible. And as far as our allegiance and loyalty to a government, first is God's Kingdom, whether we're here in the United States, whether were in some European or African lands, our allegiance is first to God's government, God's Kingdom, the one that Christians are familiar with in their prayer "thy kingdom come".
Lehrer: But do you discourage voting or other civic participation, in addition to, you know, below that?
Brown: Of course we do not discourage it, because that wouldn't be appropriate. Each one makes up his own mind. And if he's decided that his allegiance is to God's Kingdom and he separates himself from the kingdoms or governments of this world, then he decides, individually, his own conscience at work, as to how he will handle the particular affairs.
Lehrer: Do you think that's common? Do a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses decline to vote?
Brown: Yes.
Lehrer: Because, they think, it doesn't matter what happens in this life? Or what's the reason for that?
Brown: Not at all. Because we feel that you must be the best citizen, in whatever country you live. At the same time we feel you can't serve, really effectively, two masters. We've already decided our allegiance is to God's Kingdom, that's what we preach, and so we feel this is what we are promoting, this is what we are sponsoring, the Good News of God's Kingdom. So we do not intermingle with the politics in any country where we are. But that doesn't reflect indifference. We feel we are endeavoring to be the best possible citizens as far as obeying the laws of the land, whatever they happen to be, because this is a part of Christian teaching.
Lehrer: This is WNYC AM 820 and 93.9 FM. My guest is J. R. Brown, Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Margareet in Queens, you're on WNYC.
Caller: Good morning, thank you. Mr. Brown, please clarify something for me. In the neighborhood that I live in there's quite a few Jehovah Witnesses in my building, as a matter of fact. They are very lovely people, I have no complaints about them, but my problem is this. Someone had told be a while back that Jehovah Witnesses do not salute any flag. And I feel if you are living in a country that allows you this freedom, that you should — you owe something back.
Lehrer: Same thing? Individual choice on say, reciting the pledge of allegiance in school for a Jehovah Witness child, and many are counseled by their parents not to, that kind of thing?
Brown: Yes, but she makes a very important point. We do love the country where ever we live. But when it comes to pledging allegiance, we feel that that devotion and that worship should go to God alone. Now how we show our love for the country and respect for its authority, is by living up to its laws, paying its taxes, whatever is required, supporting whatever efforts do not interfere with other activities of life, and that's how we show our respect.
Lehrer: So saluting the flag in particular?
Brown: We pledge only allegiance to God first. And if there is some symbol that is use by a state, we respect it, we are not in any way irreverent toward it, you will never see us burning it or tearing it down. But we respect the thing for which it symbolizes.
Lehrer: Is that a problem for Jehovah Witness kids, in say the New York City public schools, which since September 11th, have had a daily pledge of allegiance
Brown: Not really, because most persons know that Jehovah's Witnesses are very respectful of any national symbol. And while others are saluting it, members of Jehovah's Witnesses just quietly observe it, they may even stand while others pledge their allegiance. So it's not that we are against the flag, or the symbol, or anti-government. We show respect for it, but we just do not vocalize allegiance to any symbol. That's not just here, that's in whatever land we live.
Lehrer: Vero in Manhattan, you're on WNYC
Caller: Hi, good morning. I have a question. I recently read that, I think it was in Costa Rica. I know that Jehovah Witnesses don't necessarily believe in blood transfusions, and they just recently had a big issue out in Latin America about that and Costa Rica passed some law that to an extent forces you to have a blood transfusion if you need it to live.
Lehrer: There's an open case in Canada too, I understand, where the Supreme Court is deciding whether to accept a Jehovah's — Jehovah Witness teenager's plea to halt blood transfusions which doctors say is necessary to keep him alive.
Brown: In regard to blood transfusion, we make a personal decision that we will obey God's law on it. It's stated in the bible, in both what is referred to as the Old Testament, and what is referred to as the New Testament. We feel that for ourselves, we will obey God's law, blood is sacred, it represents the life, and the thing that we have in mind is there are alternatives to the use of transfusing whole blood.
Lehrer: So this would be part of the Jehovah Witnesses literal interpretation of the bible, correct?
Brown: We follow the bible and how it is taught. Some of the teachings, of course, involve principles, but the matter of God's law on blood is very specific. Throughout the ages he has always forbidden to take the blood of another, whether someone is to murder another or shed his blood, if meat is to be eaten, it is to be drained of blood, and we look at the same thing applied by not transfusing the blood of another into our body. And so we opt for other alternatives, these exist today, and they can be found in hospitals that cater to our needs in that way.
Lehrer: Charles in Rockland County, you're on WNYC
Caller: Good morning. I was just — I'm going to comment — I'm going to ask a few questions, actually. One question is since 1911, I think it is, Watchtower has made, I'd probably say 7+ prophecies of end of times — exact date, and the speaker actually mentioned before that they know that no man knows the hour, but they actually made, I mean, these are public statements, they are documented and everyone knows them, and they didn't come to pass. They didn't come true. And furthermore, I was concerned, I was just wondering, if they believe Jesus is the Messiah? Thank you.
Lehrer: Thank you. Mr. Brown?
Brown: As to Charles' question, if we believe Jesus is the Messiah, the answer to that is yes, we believe he is now the reigning king, of God's messianic kingdom, which will come in for a thousand-year period, just ahead of us. And it may well be that in the past we've been very anxious to see that occur, and maybe in our eagerness and enthusiasm, some have gotten the impression that we were referring to a specific date, and making direct prophecies that on a certain day and time certain events would occur. And this hasn't been the case as far as determining a particular day, a particular hour, and a particular time. We have enthusiastically, maybe, anticipated it, to come before now, and that's normal. Even the disciples of Jesus, in their enthusiasm and desire to see the Messiah, felt it was going to happen before it did.
Lehrer: We have just a minute left. I wonder how you would explain why in an era dominated by personal choice, where people tend to pick-and-choose the aspects of various religions, that they want to practice, the Jehovah's Witness really commands people to take to whole package, would be becoming more popular.
Brown: Well, the reason is because when people make a study of the bible — and you you have to study it yourself — they see that this is a hope that they want, this is a way of life that benefits them, and that this can give them something that brings enthusiasm to their life, and gives them a zeal to live, not only now the best possible life, but on into the future. We can see now people want spirituality
Lehrer: J. R. Brown is Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. So there you know a little bit more, for those of you who didn't already know, about these folks who might be ringing your doorbell, or handing out Watchtower newspapers on the corner. Thank you very much for coming on today.
Brown: You're very welcome.
New York Radio Station WNYC (AM 820 and 93.9 FM) Friday May 10, 2002 10:40 to 11:00 AM
[Radio Host Brian Lehrer's telephone interview with J. R. Brown, Director of the Office of Public Information for Jehovah's Witnesses]
Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. One of the fastest growing religions is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Many people in our area of course have seen Jehovah's Witnesses going door-to-door, or selling the newspaper Watchtower on street corners and we though it would be interesting to find out a little more about who they are, and what they say they are all about. So with me now is J. R. Brown, Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mr. Brown, welcome to WNYC
Brown: Thank you, good morning Brian, how are you?
Lehrer: OK, thanks. First, how fast is the religion growing, and where?
Brown: Well, we're growing internationally, that's in, now, 111 branches and 235 lands around the world. We're spending much time helping people with the bible, about 3.2 million hours every day. And so we're gaining in publishers at about 1.7% as to average publishers for the year.
Lehrer: So how many members does that mean you have at this point?
Brown: Now, around the world, now, we have better than 6 million active members. By active we mean someone who actually joins with us in our work of evangelizing, and helping others in their bible study and learning about a Christian way of living.
Lehrer: And from what I've read, your membership was maybe 44,000 in 1928, 6 million, as you say, today; projections are it will double again by 2020. Is most of that taking place in the United States, or what particular other countries?
Brown: No, we're growing very rapidly in countries throughout the Central- and South-America area, the Caribbean and African lands. In other words, our evangelizing work is very intense all around the globe.
Lehrer: I've read that the Witnesses, the Mormons, and the Seventh Day Adventists, all espouse very similar "end of the world" philosophies. Would you put it that way?
Brown: Well, not exactly, because while we do believe that we're in the last days, and that the time is due for God to render his judgment, we put the emphasis on Good News. That what is ahead for mankind is a paradise earth, one in which God's Kingdom, that Christians pray for, will take over the control and government of the earth, and bring blessings to mankind.
Lehrer: What does that mean, that we're in "the last days?" as you put it?
Brown: Well, the bible has spoken about a period of time, just like our own, when conditions would be bad, they would go from bad to worse. All the major news stories now, for the most part, can find some biblical setting, and this constitutes "a sign" that in particular Jesus gave, or the prophets mention certain things. But this was to be evidence that we were living in the last days, or some refer to it as the "end times" but either way it was a time in which God would render his judgment with respects earthly affairs.
Lehrer: So does the Jehovah Witness organization have a position on how many days we have left? Do you have a number?
Brown: No! We do not have a number. That number is not given in the scripture, in fact Jesus said himself just the opposite, that no man knows the day or hour.
Lehrer: So you call it "last days" but this could go on for a few thousand years.
Brown: Well, you see, when you say "last days" that itself implies a short period of time. There are limitations. We feel it is very near, because conditions are falling in line with exactly what the bible said, as well as the behavior of people continues to deteriorate. And all of this constitutes evidence that we are in the "last days".
Lehrer: Of course, if you are growing as fast as the organization appears to be, delaying the end of the world might be in your interest.
Brown: Well, in other words, it's not totally up to us. God is involved, and his judgment. We are to keep working at matters, helping people to get in, but in the final analysis, Jehovah God renders his judgment and he decides who will inherit this everlasting future.
Lehrer: This is WNYC, AM 820 and 93.9 FM. My guest is J. R. Brown, he's the Director of the Office of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. We invite Jehovah's Witnesses to call up and tell us why you've chosen that particular religion or anyone else with questions, at 212-267-WNYC, 267-9692. What's the door-to-door thing, does that really work?
Brown: Well, that's the way Jesus started his disciples, and it is very effective. Nothing replaces a one-on-one contact with persons. And it is a neighborly expression of our love and how we feel about people. We have something that's good, that helps us in our life, and we want to share it. So we go to our neighbors and make a personal visit.
Lehrer: Um, is there a kind of percentage, you know, like do you expect, the first conversation is not going to do it, but you're planting a seed, and people come back to you in a year, or how would you say it usually works?
Brown: It works both ways. Sometimes people listen to us, and after a period of time, they want more information. Some persons you meet in just the right circumstance, they need something spiritual in their life, they've been looking for it, so they're will to sit down with us and study the bible. And we don't make converts, where on the spot someone decides they will become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to study the bible, and understand its teachings, and embrace them, and then live by these teachings. And then you would qualify to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lehrer: Let me take a phone call for you. Here is Charles in Ridgewood. You're on WNYC
Caller: Yeah hi, um I was just wondering if you had any statistical, like if you did a statistical analysis of the percentage of minorities that are Jehovah's Witnesses?
Lehrer: In the United States? People of color in the United States?
Caller: In the United Sates, yes.
Brown: We have not done any statistical information on that, because our effort is to embrace all peoples, all languages, all races. And of course in the United States, you have many opportunities to do that. We sponsor foreign language congregations, and this helps people from wherever they come. So we've not tried to make a distinction as to minority population as compared with others.
Lehrer: But you do demographic marketing, as one would think any sophisticated organization would, right? For example, one of my neighbors in my building is a Jehovah's Witness, very nice guy, very thoughtful man, a deep thinker, even, I would say, and he's Dominican, and he goes door-to-door every Sunday, and he concentrates in Spanish-speaking communities in upper Manhattan.
Brown: Yes, and that would be appropriate. In other words, he would be serving the interests of the Spanish-speaking congregation, and that's appropriate. But we haven't tried to make a distinction as to how many Latinos, Hispanics, or black, or white Witnesses there are in any given area, because our message appeals to all people. So in whatever language they speak it, it's going to be the same. So our emphasis is on what unites, rather then what divides.
Lehrer: Frank in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC
Caller: I'd like to ask the caller if he allows his members, or the members of Jehovah's Witnesses, to vote in elections?
Lehrer: For what?
Caller: For Mayor, for City Council, for President, for Congress, for anything.
Brown: We do not form regulations that require other people to live up to what is stated. We teach them the bible. And as far as our allegiance and loyalty to a government, first is God's Kingdom, whether we're here in the United States, whether were in some European or African lands, our allegiance is first to God's government, God's Kingdom, the one that Christians are familiar with in their prayer "thy kingdom come".
Lehrer: But do you discourage voting or other civic participation, in addition to, you know, below that?
Brown: Of course we do not discourage it, because that wouldn't be appropriate. Each one makes up his own mind. And if he's decided that his allegiance is to God's Kingdom and he separates himself from the kingdoms or governments of this world, then he decides, individually, his own conscience at work, as to how he will handle the particular affairs.
Lehrer: Do you think that's common? Do a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses decline to vote?
Brown: Yes.
Lehrer: Because, they think, it doesn't matter what happens in this life? Or what's the reason for that?
Brown: Not at all. Because we feel that you must be the best citizen, in whatever country you live. At the same time we feel you can't serve, really effectively, two masters. We've already decided our allegiance is to God's Kingdom, that's what we preach, and so we feel this is what we are promoting, this is what we are sponsoring, the Good News of God's Kingdom. So we do not intermingle with the politics in any country where we are. But that doesn't reflect indifference. We feel we are endeavoring to be the best possible citizens as far as obeying the laws of the land, whatever they happen to be, because this is a part of Christian teaching.
Lehrer: This is WNYC AM 820 and 93.9 FM. My guest is J. R. Brown, Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Margareet in Queens, you're on WNYC.
Caller: Good morning, thank you. Mr. Brown, please clarify something for me. In the neighborhood that I live in there's quite a few Jehovah Witnesses in my building, as a matter of fact. They are very lovely people, I have no complaints about them, but my problem is this. Someone had told be a while back that Jehovah Witnesses do not salute any flag. And I feel if you are living in a country that allows you this freedom, that you should — you owe something back.
Lehrer: Same thing? Individual choice on say, reciting the pledge of allegiance in school for a Jehovah Witness child, and many are counseled by their parents not to, that kind of thing?
Brown: Yes, but she makes a very important point. We do love the country where ever we live. But when it comes to pledging allegiance, we feel that that devotion and that worship should go to God alone. Now how we show our love for the country and respect for its authority, is by living up to its laws, paying its taxes, whatever is required, supporting whatever efforts do not interfere with other activities of life, and that's how we show our respect.
Lehrer: So saluting the flag in particular?
Brown: We pledge only allegiance to God first. And if there is some symbol that is use by a state, we respect it, we are not in any way irreverent toward it, you will never see us burning it or tearing it down. But we respect the thing for which it symbolizes.
Lehrer: Is that a problem for Jehovah Witness kids, in say the New York City public schools, which since September 11th, have had a daily pledge of allegiance
Brown: Not really, because most persons know that Jehovah's Witnesses are very respectful of any national symbol. And while others are saluting it, members of Jehovah's Witnesses just quietly observe it, they may even stand while others pledge their allegiance. So it's not that we are against the flag, or the symbol, or anti-government. We show respect for it, but we just do not vocalize allegiance to any symbol. That's not just here, that's in whatever land we live.
Lehrer: Vero in Manhattan, you're on WNYC
Caller: Hi, good morning. I have a question. I recently read that, I think it was in Costa Rica. I know that Jehovah Witnesses don't necessarily believe in blood transfusions, and they just recently had a big issue out in Latin America about that and Costa Rica passed some law that to an extent forces you to have a blood transfusion if you need it to live.
Lehrer: There's an open case in Canada too, I understand, where the Supreme Court is deciding whether to accept a Jehovah's — Jehovah Witness teenager's plea to halt blood transfusions which doctors say is necessary to keep him alive.
Brown: In regard to blood transfusion, we make a personal decision that we will obey God's law on it. It's stated in the bible, in both what is referred to as the Old Testament, and what is referred to as the New Testament. We feel that for ourselves, we will obey God's law, blood is sacred, it represents the life, and the thing that we have in mind is there are alternatives to the use of transfusing whole blood.
Lehrer: So this would be part of the Jehovah Witnesses literal interpretation of the bible, correct?
Brown: We follow the bible and how it is taught. Some of the teachings, of course, involve principles, but the matter of God's law on blood is very specific. Throughout the ages he has always forbidden to take the blood of another, whether someone is to murder another or shed his blood, if meat is to be eaten, it is to be drained of blood, and we look at the same thing applied by not transfusing the blood of another into our body. And so we opt for other alternatives, these exist today, and they can be found in hospitals that cater to our needs in that way.
Lehrer: Charles in Rockland County, you're on WNYC
Caller: Good morning. I was just — I'm going to comment — I'm going to ask a few questions, actually. One question is since 1911, I think it is, Watchtower has made, I'd probably say 7+ prophecies of end of times — exact date, and the speaker actually mentioned before that they know that no man knows the hour, but they actually made, I mean, these are public statements, they are documented and everyone knows them, and they didn't come to pass. They didn't come true. And furthermore, I was concerned, I was just wondering, if they believe Jesus is the Messiah? Thank you.
Lehrer: Thank you. Mr. Brown?
Brown: As to Charles' question, if we believe Jesus is the Messiah, the answer to that is yes, we believe he is now the reigning king, of God's messianic kingdom, which will come in for a thousand-year period, just ahead of us. And it may well be that in the past we've been very anxious to see that occur, and maybe in our eagerness and enthusiasm, some have gotten the impression that we were referring to a specific date, and making direct prophecies that on a certain day and time certain events would occur. And this hasn't been the case as far as determining a particular day, a particular hour, and a particular time. We have enthusiastically, maybe, anticipated it, to come before now, and that's normal. Even the disciples of Jesus, in their enthusiasm and desire to see the Messiah, felt it was going to happen before it did.
Lehrer: We have just a minute left. I wonder how you would explain why in an era dominated by personal choice, where people tend to pick-and-choose the aspects of various religions, that they want to practice, the Jehovah's Witness really commands people to take to whole package, would be becoming more popular.
Brown: Well, the reason is because when people make a study of the bible — and you you have to study it yourself — they see that this is a hope that they want, this is a way of life that benefits them, and that this can give them something that brings enthusiasm to their life, and gives them a zeal to live, not only now the best possible life, but on into the future. We can see now people want spirituality
Lehrer: J. R. Brown is Director of Public Information for the Jehovah's Witnesses. So there you know a little bit more, for those of you who didn't already know, about these folks who might be ringing your doorbell, or handing out Watchtower newspapers on the corner. Thank you very much for coming on today.
Brown: You're very welcome.
Transcript Of Talk Given In 1967 Titled “"Serving With Everlasting Life in View"
"Serving With Everlasting Life in View"
… for whether they be in the more affluent countries of the earth, we'll all still hold on for life, because as long as there is life, we find that there is hope.
If this is true of most persons, how much more true would it be of Jehovah's Witnesses. Because not only do we have the present life to hold onto and to live for, but we hold onto the hope of everlasting life. Because Jesus promised this in Romans the Sixth chapter, that the reward God would give would be everlasting life. So we have a strong desire and instinct to wanna survive and pursue it. And to eventually realize paradisiacal conditions in God's New Order.
But in this run for life, some of us looking forward to a change in this old system and its destruction for many years now, there are some of us who get a little weary. And a little tired. And sometimes we just want to throw our hands up and say 'I just don't know if I can go on any further.'
But, just like a runner when he's running a course, and he gets near to the end, just about the time he thinks he can't go on any further, he realizes 'well there's the goal ahead of [inaudible]' He's come around the last lap, and there it is! Well all of a sudden he just seems to get some reserve power from nowhere, and with a sudden surge of energy, on he goes to break the finish line rope and win the prize.
Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975.
There's been a lot of talk about the year, in fact even this week some individuals have been wondering, 'well, what does it mean? Do we dare talk about it? Is it something we can discuss among ourselves, even though we may not talk much about it in public? Do we really know what it means?'
Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. Because the Watchtower has been very explicit as to what the year 1975 means to us. If you wish to write down the page, 262, in the [May 1] 1967 issue of the Watchtower, we read:
What does the year 1975 mean for humankind? The end of 6000 years of human existence, and possibly, [voice raising dramatically] the time when God executes the wicked and starts off a thousand-year reign under his son Jesus Christ.
Unquote. What did it say? The end of 6000 years of human existence and that's all? NO, it gave us a little more to think about there. Did it say for certainty the time when God executes the wicked and starts off a thousand year reign by Jesus Christ? No. But it did give us a glimmer of light. It says [voice rising] possibly, possibly the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand year reign of his son Jesus Christ, [voice returning to normal] 1975.
Doesn't that give you a little bit of excitement about the future? Even if there is the possibility, [voice rising] that's it, when God will bring the battle of Armageddon, and clean this old Earth off? And you'll be ushered right into a paradise Earth for ever more [voice returning to normal]. Never again to be afflicted with this old Satanic system of things. It will be GONE, DOWN. That should excite all of us.
There are the skeptics who say 'well, I'm not going to think about it and not worry about it. I'm not going to pay attention to it.' Well now remember brothers, the faithful and discreet slave is used by Jesus to to what? Jesus says 'to provide meat in due season.' This is meat, and it's come at the right time. And it's in its due season. And it's not wrong to think about it, and to look forward to it.
As far as knowing for sure? Well, we know what we know for sure. We just read it. [voice rising] 'The end of Six Thousand years of human history, and possibly the execution of the wicked and the beginning of the Thousand year reign.' And that should be exciting enough, and talk enough for us.
When you think about it, what a fantastic, short span of time that is. How many of you here were in New York City in 1958? Would you hold up your hands. A great majority of you here. Where has the time gone since then? Just seemed like yesterday that we were there. But [voice rising] do you realize that more time has passed away since that assembly in 1958 where a quarter-of-a-million Jehovah's Witnesses gathered, [voice returns to normal] than what is left to 1975? Hard to imagine, isn't it? Yes, that was nine years ago. It's only eight years to Seventy-Five.
How little time there is left. How much to happen.
We just wait now, with everlasting life in view, and we serve with the future unveiling in front of us. Very soon now we wait for Babylon the Great to be turned upon and severely scathed and destroyed and decimated 'til where there's nothing left of her.
And then the cry 'Peace and Safety. We finally got rid of the old harlot, she's off our back. No more religion to bother us' the nations say. Uh oh. There they are. Rearing there ugly heads up above the dust. Jehovah's Witnesses. Now with a message more fierce than has ever been heard before. Now with a taunt song to the nations. 'You see? We told you Babylon the Great was going down, was going to be destroyed, you said it would never happen, but you did it yourself. Now you're next. Jehovah will destroy you.' You think they're going to like that? That's when they all combine. All the communistic and democratic powers together, with one objective in mind: 'wipe out those people. Then truly we'll be rid of all antagonists and have peace and safety, and we'll have our unified world.'
But when they begin to attack Jehovah's Witnesses, strange things begin to happen. It seems to be calamities are brought by Jehovah God in a fierce and horrifying way, as though they've never seen things of this nature before. Flesh eating plagues are mentioned by Zechariah that will seep this Earth, rot the eyes out of the sockets, and the tongues out of the mouths. [voice raised] They'll run screaming out of their houses with this striking them [voice returning to normal], and yet they'll see Jehovah's Witnesses are untouched. 'How will we get in now? Let me be one of you!' Well, it's too late now.
And then Jehovah God seems to bring the natural forces against this old system. Terror on air, in land, and in the sea. Fratricidal warfare, neighbor against neighbor. Every un-human, inhumane thing that could occur, not only from men, but even from natural forces.
And Armageddon seems to have two phases now. The latest Watchtower brought out, if you've read it, where it says there is such a thing as a just war, Phase One: All united efforts among the nations destroyed, all political organization gone. All that's left are the kings, standing by themselves, without an ally or friend in the world, all super-suspicious of each other, all standing there tense. Phase Two: Jehovah strikes confusion into their hearts, and in a mad fury and flurry then turn on each other, destroying one another. And what is left? Then Jehovah God calls his super-natural angels and the cavalry of Jesus Christ to close in on them, 200 million angels, with all their destructive power, and what a power that's going to be.
One angel, in one night, when the Syrian forces of [inaudible] came against Israel, destroyed 185,000. Let's say the the 200 million angels of Jesus Christ are limited in power and they can only destroy 185,000. [Voice rising] That would give them the potential to destroy 37 trillion persons. [voice returns to normal] There aren't near that many on the Earth. In fact, that's 12, 333 times the number of people even alive. All that power wrapped up in the cavalry of Jesus Christ. And all of that, possibly, has to happen and be finished within the year 1975.
Exciting years ahead of us! And then look beyond that: the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ. Know what that means? All the dead being brought back. Just think of the dear ones you've lost, maybe in the last five or ten years. Don't you look forward to seeing them coming back? Well it won't be long now. Look at what's ahead.
You think you're going to mind having to work with the crops and the land when you find out that your loved ones are going to come back and you have to plant a little extra for them? You think you're going to mind, when you are notified maybe a little in advance, that you need some shelter? As you are going to have to build [inaudible] for your loved ones temporary living quarters for when they come back?
Just think what it's going to be like when the family is notified it's time, and you all gather there, waiting, and you see them rise up out of the dust. Like Isaiah says, "Awake you in the dust, you residents. Come alive." Think you're going to mind seeing that?
That's our future. What a wonderful one. The resurrection is something to stagger the imagination with immensity. When it comes to the number that will be back, we don't know for sure, but some comments have been made by the Society, that could give some idea.
You may want to make note of these references, read them later.
"Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie" paragraph 12, page 350: "Billions who died before Jesus, billions who died since will be back."
The latest publication, "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God" page 393 paragraph 26: "Thousands of millions."
The Watchtower 1964, page 722, paragraph 24, and listen to this: "TENS of billions will be back".
How many are tens of billions? Well at least 20 billion. 'Cause to have tens of billions in the billions, you have to have two sets of ten billion. So at the very minimum figure, lets say even 20 billion coming back. What a fantastic accomplishment that's going to be for our Lord, Jesus Christ.
In fact, there was a tract one time, printed by the Society, called "Millennial Hope Explained" where it mentioned an estimated 20 billion would be back in the resurrection, could be.
This gives you an idea. Fires the imagination. Do you realize what an accomplishment and what an undertaking that's going to be? Why if just 20 billion were brought back from the dead, every day for a thousand years, you'd have to bring back 60,000. Every day, for a thousand years.
Of course, it most likely won't take the whole thousand years, the Society has indicated. We don't know how long the resurrection will take, but that will probably squeeze the number up to where possibly, even more would be coming back.
What a thrilling time we have to live for, my brothers. How much we have to gain, by serving God with everlasting life in view.
But you know that sad part of it? There are going to be some of use here who won't see it, possibly. Wouldn't that be an awful thing, with all that in the future? Some of use here tonight may not live to see it.
Will you? You know there's a way to find out? There's a way to decide, right here and now, whether you'll make it, or whether you will not. Let us see what that is.
Turning to Luke the 13th chapter, we get some information on it. Luke 13, let's begin to read Jesus' words. Luke 13, starting with the 22nd verse. Now Jesus is going village to village, and city to city. In verse 23 it says:
Now a certain man said to him: "Lord, are those who are being saved few?" He said to them: 24 "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able, 25 when once the householder has got up and locked the door, and YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Sir, open to us.' But in answer he will say to YOU, 'I do not know where YOU are from.' 26 Then YOU will start saying, 'We ate and drank in front of you, and you taught in our broad ways.' 27 But he will speak and say to YOU, 'I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!' 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be…
What's Jesus saying here? What do you think he's saying here? Well first of all, those of us here tonight, that do not do what he says in verse 24, "exert yourselves vigorously" will not be able to get in. That's step number one. Exert ourselves vigorously through the narrow door. But then he describes a certain "class" of Christians, in God's organization, who would find themselves in this position. It says: "once the householder has got up and locked the door, [inserted by speaker: then] YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Sir, open to us.' " Well, who would that refer to? Well as far as closing the door, when does it shut down? The destruction of Babylon the Great, the door will be shut down. And then it says some of us will come and want to get into the Lord's organization then, and then we'll say "Lord, open to us" and Jesus will look out at us and say "I don't even know you."
But then we panic and we say "But we ate and drank in front of you taught us in our broad ways." What's that a desperation attempt to do? It's a desperation attempt to say to Jesus, "Its me! You remember me! I sat in front of you, and you taught us in your broad ways. Remember I came to the Watchtower study once a week? And remember when the Circuit Servant was there, I never missed? And every memorial I came?"
What does he say then? "I'm sorry, I don't know you. I don't recognize you. You didn't love the Lord's people enough to be there all the time. You didn't love my house enough to be there all the time. Now why try to come and show you love me? If you loved me you would have been there. So I don't recognize you as one of my people, get away from me. You had time to work righteousness, now get away from me you worker of lawlessness. You had your opportunity. Stand out there with the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth. Beat your chests." And wouldn't we?
Wouldn't we at that time, if we were left outside, beat our chests, and gnash our teeth, and weep, and say "God, I was so close. What did I fool around for? Why didn't I do something for The Truth when I had the opportunity? Why did I make all those excuses? Why did I try to fool Jehovah God?"
Well now, who will be there of use here tonight? Well the Society has made application of this scripture, pointing out, that those of us among Jehovah's Witnesses that are not regularly associating with his people, without good cause such as being flat on our back, will not be in the New Order. And we're the ones that are going to come around when the doors close and say "I want in now. Sir, open to us!" And Jesus will have to say "I'm sorry, I don't even recognize you."
Now wouldn't that be an awful thing? You see now why the Society implores us year in and year out, the same old thing: "Brothers, get in the flock. Don't let any excuses get in our way. Nothing of any nature."
There's only one thing that's going to count when that time comes, and that's that we are inside. And we hope that all of us here tonight are going to listen to the Society's imploring.
We're going to listen to their agonizing entreaty "Brothers get in" because they know what's coming! And it's coming fast. And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then.
So? What are we going to do now with our future? Why not be like the little piglet? Every see a piglet born? It's quite an amazing thing. They come out from behind the mother's legs, they're blind, they can't see. They're still attached to their mother's umbilical cord. And somehow they've gotta break free of that umbilical cord, come around the mother's legs, and find the milk. How do they do it? Well watch them sometime. They tug and they pull and they scratch. They fall and they get up. And they jerk and they yank. They fall again and they get up again and they tug and pull some more. And pretty soon they break loose and those little legs, they go 'round the mother's legs, and they come up and they find their reward, their milk.
Now we can do the same. We're going to fall once in a while. We're going to slip. It's going to be hard pulling and hard tugging, but don't give in. Get up, get on our feet, and run! The goal is there: everlasting life! Serve with it in view! Do what Jesus Christ says: serve with everlasting view, as long as Jehovah asks us! Jesus urged "Endurance on your part" and then he says "by enduring, you will acquire your souls."
As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five"
"Serving With Everlasting Life in View"
… for whether they be in the more affluent countries of the earth, we'll all still hold on for life, because as long as there is life, we find that there is hope.
If this is true of most persons, how much more true would it be of Jehovah's Witnesses. Because not only do we have the present life to hold onto and to live for, but we hold onto the hope of everlasting life. Because Jesus promised this in Romans the Sixth chapter, that the reward God would give would be everlasting life. So we have a strong desire and instinct to wanna survive and pursue it. And to eventually realize paradisiacal conditions in God's New Order.
But in this run for life, some of us looking forward to a change in this old system and its destruction for many years now, there are some of us who get a little weary. And a little tired. And sometimes we just want to throw our hands up and say 'I just don't know if I can go on any further.'
But, just like a runner when he's running a course, and he gets near to the end, just about the time he thinks he can't go on any further, he realizes 'well there's the goal ahead of [inaudible]' He's come around the last lap, and there it is! Well all of a sudden he just seems to get some reserve power from nowhere, and with a sudden surge of energy, on he goes to break the finish line rope and win the prize.
Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975.
There's been a lot of talk about the year, in fact even this week some individuals have been wondering, 'well, what does it mean? Do we dare talk about it? Is it something we can discuss among ourselves, even though we may not talk much about it in public? Do we really know what it means?'
Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. Because the Watchtower has been very explicit as to what the year 1975 means to us. If you wish to write down the page, 262, in the [May 1] 1967 issue of the Watchtower, we read:
What does the year 1975 mean for humankind? The end of 6000 years of human existence, and possibly, [voice raising dramatically] the time when God executes the wicked and starts off a thousand-year reign under his son Jesus Christ.
Unquote. What did it say? The end of 6000 years of human existence and that's all? NO, it gave us a little more to think about there. Did it say for certainty the time when God executes the wicked and starts off a thousand year reign by Jesus Christ? No. But it did give us a glimmer of light. It says [voice rising] possibly, possibly the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand year reign of his son Jesus Christ, [voice returning to normal] 1975.
Doesn't that give you a little bit of excitement about the future? Even if there is the possibility, [voice rising] that's it, when God will bring the battle of Armageddon, and clean this old Earth off? And you'll be ushered right into a paradise Earth for ever more [voice returning to normal]. Never again to be afflicted with this old Satanic system of things. It will be GONE, DOWN. That should excite all of us.
There are the skeptics who say 'well, I'm not going to think about it and not worry about it. I'm not going to pay attention to it.' Well now remember brothers, the faithful and discreet slave is used by Jesus to to what? Jesus says 'to provide meat in due season.' This is meat, and it's come at the right time. And it's in its due season. And it's not wrong to think about it, and to look forward to it.
As far as knowing for sure? Well, we know what we know for sure. We just read it. [voice rising] 'The end of Six Thousand years of human history, and possibly the execution of the wicked and the beginning of the Thousand year reign.' And that should be exciting enough, and talk enough for us.
When you think about it, what a fantastic, short span of time that is. How many of you here were in New York City in 1958? Would you hold up your hands. A great majority of you here. Where has the time gone since then? Just seemed like yesterday that we were there. But [voice rising] do you realize that more time has passed away since that assembly in 1958 where a quarter-of-a-million Jehovah's Witnesses gathered, [voice returns to normal] than what is left to 1975? Hard to imagine, isn't it? Yes, that was nine years ago. It's only eight years to Seventy-Five.
How little time there is left. How much to happen.
We just wait now, with everlasting life in view, and we serve with the future unveiling in front of us. Very soon now we wait for Babylon the Great to be turned upon and severely scathed and destroyed and decimated 'til where there's nothing left of her.
And then the cry 'Peace and Safety. We finally got rid of the old harlot, she's off our back. No more religion to bother us' the nations say. Uh oh. There they are. Rearing there ugly heads up above the dust. Jehovah's Witnesses. Now with a message more fierce than has ever been heard before. Now with a taunt song to the nations. 'You see? We told you Babylon the Great was going down, was going to be destroyed, you said it would never happen, but you did it yourself. Now you're next. Jehovah will destroy you.' You think they're going to like that? That's when they all combine. All the communistic and democratic powers together, with one objective in mind: 'wipe out those people. Then truly we'll be rid of all antagonists and have peace and safety, and we'll have our unified world.'
But when they begin to attack Jehovah's Witnesses, strange things begin to happen. It seems to be calamities are brought by Jehovah God in a fierce and horrifying way, as though they've never seen things of this nature before. Flesh eating plagues are mentioned by Zechariah that will seep this Earth, rot the eyes out of the sockets, and the tongues out of the mouths. [voice raised] They'll run screaming out of their houses with this striking them [voice returning to normal], and yet they'll see Jehovah's Witnesses are untouched. 'How will we get in now? Let me be one of you!' Well, it's too late now.
And then Jehovah God seems to bring the natural forces against this old system. Terror on air, in land, and in the sea. Fratricidal warfare, neighbor against neighbor. Every un-human, inhumane thing that could occur, not only from men, but even from natural forces.
And Armageddon seems to have two phases now. The latest Watchtower brought out, if you've read it, where it says there is such a thing as a just war, Phase One: All united efforts among the nations destroyed, all political organization gone. All that's left are the kings, standing by themselves, without an ally or friend in the world, all super-suspicious of each other, all standing there tense. Phase Two: Jehovah strikes confusion into their hearts, and in a mad fury and flurry then turn on each other, destroying one another. And what is left? Then Jehovah God calls his super-natural angels and the cavalry of Jesus Christ to close in on them, 200 million angels, with all their destructive power, and what a power that's going to be.
One angel, in one night, when the Syrian forces of [inaudible] came against Israel, destroyed 185,000. Let's say the the 200 million angels of Jesus Christ are limited in power and they can only destroy 185,000. [Voice rising] That would give them the potential to destroy 37 trillion persons. [voice returns to normal] There aren't near that many on the Earth. In fact, that's 12, 333 times the number of people even alive. All that power wrapped up in the cavalry of Jesus Christ. And all of that, possibly, has to happen and be finished within the year 1975.
Exciting years ahead of us! And then look beyond that: the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ. Know what that means? All the dead being brought back. Just think of the dear ones you've lost, maybe in the last five or ten years. Don't you look forward to seeing them coming back? Well it won't be long now. Look at what's ahead.
You think you're going to mind having to work with the crops and the land when you find out that your loved ones are going to come back and you have to plant a little extra for them? You think you're going to mind, when you are notified maybe a little in advance, that you need some shelter? As you are going to have to build [inaudible] for your loved ones temporary living quarters for when they come back?
Just think what it's going to be like when the family is notified it's time, and you all gather there, waiting, and you see them rise up out of the dust. Like Isaiah says, "Awake you in the dust, you residents. Come alive." Think you're going to mind seeing that?
That's our future. What a wonderful one. The resurrection is something to stagger the imagination with immensity. When it comes to the number that will be back, we don't know for sure, but some comments have been made by the Society, that could give some idea.
You may want to make note of these references, read them later.
"Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie" paragraph 12, page 350: "Billions who died before Jesus, billions who died since will be back."
The latest publication, "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God" page 393 paragraph 26: "Thousands of millions."
The Watchtower 1964, page 722, paragraph 24, and listen to this: "TENS of billions will be back".
How many are tens of billions? Well at least 20 billion. 'Cause to have tens of billions in the billions, you have to have two sets of ten billion. So at the very minimum figure, lets say even 20 billion coming back. What a fantastic accomplishment that's going to be for our Lord, Jesus Christ.
In fact, there was a tract one time, printed by the Society, called "Millennial Hope Explained" where it mentioned an estimated 20 billion would be back in the resurrection, could be.
This gives you an idea. Fires the imagination. Do you realize what an accomplishment and what an undertaking that's going to be? Why if just 20 billion were brought back from the dead, every day for a thousand years, you'd have to bring back 60,000. Every day, for a thousand years.
Of course, it most likely won't take the whole thousand years, the Society has indicated. We don't know how long the resurrection will take, but that will probably squeeze the number up to where possibly, even more would be coming back.
What a thrilling time we have to live for, my brothers. How much we have to gain, by serving God with everlasting life in view.
But you know that sad part of it? There are going to be some of use here who won't see it, possibly. Wouldn't that be an awful thing, with all that in the future? Some of use here tonight may not live to see it.
Will you? You know there's a way to find out? There's a way to decide, right here and now, whether you'll make it, or whether you will not. Let us see what that is.
Turning to Luke the 13th chapter, we get some information on it. Luke 13, let's begin to read Jesus' words. Luke 13, starting with the 22nd verse. Now Jesus is going village to village, and city to city. In verse 23 it says:
Now a certain man said to him: "Lord, are those who are being saved few?" He said to them: 24 "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able, 25 when once the householder has got up and locked the door, and YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Sir, open to us.' But in answer he will say to YOU, 'I do not know where YOU are from.' 26 Then YOU will start saying, 'We ate and drank in front of you, and you taught in our broad ways.' 27 But he will speak and say to YOU, 'I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!' 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be…
What's Jesus saying here? What do you think he's saying here? Well first of all, those of us here tonight, that do not do what he says in verse 24, "exert yourselves vigorously" will not be able to get in. That's step number one. Exert ourselves vigorously through the narrow door. But then he describes a certain "class" of Christians, in God's organization, who would find themselves in this position. It says: "once the householder has got up and locked the door, [inserted by speaker: then] YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Sir, open to us.' " Well, who would that refer to? Well as far as closing the door, when does it shut down? The destruction of Babylon the Great, the door will be shut down. And then it says some of us will come and want to get into the Lord's organization then, and then we'll say "Lord, open to us" and Jesus will look out at us and say "I don't even know you."
But then we panic and we say "But we ate and drank in front of you taught us in our broad ways." What's that a desperation attempt to do? It's a desperation attempt to say to Jesus, "Its me! You remember me! I sat in front of you, and you taught us in your broad ways. Remember I came to the Watchtower study once a week? And remember when the Circuit Servant was there, I never missed? And every memorial I came?"
What does he say then? "I'm sorry, I don't know you. I don't recognize you. You didn't love the Lord's people enough to be there all the time. You didn't love my house enough to be there all the time. Now why try to come and show you love me? If you loved me you would have been there. So I don't recognize you as one of my people, get away from me. You had time to work righteousness, now get away from me you worker of lawlessness. You had your opportunity. Stand out there with the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth. Beat your chests." And wouldn't we?
Wouldn't we at that time, if we were left outside, beat our chests, and gnash our teeth, and weep, and say "God, I was so close. What did I fool around for? Why didn't I do something for The Truth when I had the opportunity? Why did I make all those excuses? Why did I try to fool Jehovah God?"
Well now, who will be there of use here tonight? Well the Society has made application of this scripture, pointing out, that those of us among Jehovah's Witnesses that are not regularly associating with his people, without good cause such as being flat on our back, will not be in the New Order. And we're the ones that are going to come around when the doors close and say "I want in now. Sir, open to us!" And Jesus will have to say "I'm sorry, I don't even recognize you."
Now wouldn't that be an awful thing? You see now why the Society implores us year in and year out, the same old thing: "Brothers, get in the flock. Don't let any excuses get in our way. Nothing of any nature."
There's only one thing that's going to count when that time comes, and that's that we are inside. And we hope that all of us here tonight are going to listen to the Society's imploring.
We're going to listen to their agonizing entreaty "Brothers get in" because they know what's coming! And it's coming fast. And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then.
So? What are we going to do now with our future? Why not be like the little piglet? Every see a piglet born? It's quite an amazing thing. They come out from behind the mother's legs, they're blind, they can't see. They're still attached to their mother's umbilical cord. And somehow they've gotta break free of that umbilical cord, come around the mother's legs, and find the milk. How do they do it? Well watch them sometime. They tug and they pull and they scratch. They fall and they get up. And they jerk and they yank. They fall again and they get up again and they tug and pull some more. And pretty soon they break loose and those little legs, they go 'round the mother's legs, and they come up and they find their reward, their milk.
Now we can do the same. We're going to fall once in a while. We're going to slip. It's going to be hard pulling and hard tugging, but don't give in. Get up, get on our feet, and run! The goal is there: everlasting life! Serve with it in view! Do what Jesus Christ says: serve with everlasting view, as long as Jehovah asks us! Jesus urged "Endurance on your part" and then he says "by enduring, you will acquire your souls."
As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five"
An Excerpt From The Douglas Walsh Trial
Q. Is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Is there in your view room in a religion for a change of interpretation of Holy Writ from time to time?
A. There is every reason for a change in interpretation as we view it, of the Bible. Our view becomes more clear as we see the prophesy fulfilled by time.
Q. You have promulgated -- forgive the word -- false prophesy?
A. We have -- I do not think we have promulgated false prophesy, there have been statements that were erroneous, that is the way I put it, and mistaken.
Q. Is it a most vital consideration in the present situation of the world to know if the prophesy can be interpreted into terms of fact, when Christ's Second Coming was?
A. That is true, and we have always striven to see that we have the truth before we utter it. We go on the very best information we have but we cannot wait until we get perfect, because if we wait until we get perfect we would never be able to speak.
Q. Let us follow that up just a little. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's Witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?
A. I am not familiar with that. You are speaking on a matter that I know nothing of.
Q. You heard Mr. Franz's evidence?
A. I heard Mr. Franz testify, but I am not familiar with what he said on that, I mean the subject matter of what he was talking about, so I cannot answer any more than you can, having heard what he said.
Q. Leave me out of it?
A. That is the source of my information, what I have heard in court.
Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?
A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.
Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?
A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.
Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?
A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophesy that was false or erroneous.
Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?
A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.
Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?
A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organization, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.
Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.
Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. That is correct.
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.
Fred Franz, then vice-president of the Society, also answered questions for the attorney for the Ministry of Labour and National Service.
Q. In addition to these regular publications do you prepare and issue a number of theological pamphlets and books from time to time?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me this; are these theological publications and the semi-monthly periodicals used for discussion of statements of doctrine?
A. Yes.
Q. Are these statements of doctrine held to be authoritative within the Society?
A. Yes.
Q. Is their acceptance a matter of choice, or is it obligatory on all those who wish to be and remain members of the Society?
A. It is obligatory.
The British government counsellor later directed attention to certain teachings that the Society had in time rejected, including some involving specific dates. What, he asked, if someone, at the time when such teaching was promulgated, had seen the error in it and had therefore not accepted it? What would the organization's attitude toward such one be? The testimony explains:
Q. Did [Pastor Russell] not fix 1874 as some other crucial date?
A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus' Second Coming spiritually.
Q. Do you say, used to be understood?
A. That is right.
Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes.
Q. That is no longer now accepted, is it?
A. No.
Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that am I correct, I am just anxious to canvas the position; it became the bounden duty of the Witnesses to accept this miscalculation?
A. Yes.
Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
A. We have to wait and see.
Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been following error?
A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.
Q. Error?
A. Well, error.
Again the question as to how great the authority attributed to the Society's publications is came in for discussion. While at one point the vice president says that "one does not compulsorily accept," his testimony thereafter reverts back to the earlier position, as can be seen:
A. These [Watchtower Society] books give an exposition on the whole Scriptures.
Q. But an authoritative exposition?
A. They submit the Bible or the statements that are therein made, and the individual examines the statement and then the Scripture to see that the statement is Scripturally supported.
Q. He what?
A. He examines the Scripture to see whether the statement is supported by the Scripture. As the Apostle says: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good".
Q. I understood the position to be - do please correct me if I am wrong - that a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses must accept as a true Scripture and interpretation what is given in the books I referred you to?
A. But he does not compulsorily do so, he is given his Christian right of examining the Scriptures to confirm that this is Scripturally sustained.
Q. And if he finds that the Scripture is not sustained by the books, or vice versa, what does he do?
A. The Scripture is there in support of the statement, that is why it is put there.
Q. What does a man do if he finds a disharmony between the Scripture and those books?
A. You will have to produce me a man who does find that, then I can answer, or he will answer.
Note Franz's waffling. He is unwilling, even under oath, to admit that present understanding can be in error, even though he just finished testifying that what is published as truth today may be error in a few years.
Q. Did you imply that the individual member has the right of reading the books and the Bible and forming his own view as to the proper interpretation of Holy Writ?
A. He comes - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no, and then qualify?
A. No. Do you want me to qualify now?
Q. Yes, if you wish?
A. The Scripture is there given in support of the statement, and therefore the individual when he looks up the Scripture and thereby verifies the statement, then he comes to the Scriptural view of the matter, Scriptural understanding as it is written in Acts, the seventeenth chapter and the eleventh verse, that the Bereans were more noble than those of Thessalonica in that they received the Word with all readiness, and they searched the Scripture to see whether those things were so, and we instruct to follow that noble course of the Bereans in searching the Scripture to see whether these things were so.
Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed instructions issued in the "Watchtower" or the "Informant" or "Awake"?
A. He must accept those.
Q. Is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Is there in your view room in a religion for a change of interpretation of Holy Writ from time to time?
A. There is every reason for a change in interpretation as we view it, of the Bible. Our view becomes more clear as we see the prophesy fulfilled by time.
Q. You have promulgated -- forgive the word -- false prophesy?
A. We have -- I do not think we have promulgated false prophesy, there have been statements that were erroneous, that is the way I put it, and mistaken.
Q. Is it a most vital consideration in the present situation of the world to know if the prophesy can be interpreted into terms of fact, when Christ's Second Coming was?
A. That is true, and we have always striven to see that we have the truth before we utter it. We go on the very best information we have but we cannot wait until we get perfect, because if we wait until we get perfect we would never be able to speak.
Q. Let us follow that up just a little. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's Witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?
A. I am not familiar with that. You are speaking on a matter that I know nothing of.
Q. You heard Mr. Franz's evidence?
A. I heard Mr. Franz testify, but I am not familiar with what he said on that, I mean the subject matter of what he was talking about, so I cannot answer any more than you can, having heard what he said.
Q. Leave me out of it?
A. That is the source of my information, what I have heard in court.
Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?
A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.
Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?
A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.
Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?
A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophesy that was false or erroneous.
Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?
A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.
Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?
A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organization, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.
Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.
Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. That is correct.
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.
Fred Franz, then vice-president of the Society, also answered questions for the attorney for the Ministry of Labour and National Service.
Q. In addition to these regular publications do you prepare and issue a number of theological pamphlets and books from time to time?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me this; are these theological publications and the semi-monthly periodicals used for discussion of statements of doctrine?
A. Yes.
Q. Are these statements of doctrine held to be authoritative within the Society?
A. Yes.
Q. Is their acceptance a matter of choice, or is it obligatory on all those who wish to be and remain members of the Society?
A. It is obligatory.
The British government counsellor later directed attention to certain teachings that the Society had in time rejected, including some involving specific dates. What, he asked, if someone, at the time when such teaching was promulgated, had seen the error in it and had therefore not accepted it? What would the organization's attitude toward such one be? The testimony explains:
Q. Did [Pastor Russell] not fix 1874 as some other crucial date?
A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus' Second Coming spiritually.
Q. Do you say, used to be understood?
A. That is right.
Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes.
Q. That is no longer now accepted, is it?
A. No.
Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that am I correct, I am just anxious to canvas the position; it became the bounden duty of the Witnesses to accept this miscalculation?
A. Yes.
Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
A. We have to wait and see.
Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been following error?
A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.
Q. Error?
A. Well, error.
Again the question as to how great the authority attributed to the Society's publications is came in for discussion. While at one point the vice president says that "one does not compulsorily accept," his testimony thereafter reverts back to the earlier position, as can be seen:
A. These [Watchtower Society] books give an exposition on the whole Scriptures.
Q. But an authoritative exposition?
A. They submit the Bible or the statements that are therein made, and the individual examines the statement and then the Scripture to see that the statement is Scripturally supported.
Q. He what?
A. He examines the Scripture to see whether the statement is supported by the Scripture. As the Apostle says: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good".
Q. I understood the position to be - do please correct me if I am wrong - that a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses must accept as a true Scripture and interpretation what is given in the books I referred you to?
A. But he does not compulsorily do so, he is given his Christian right of examining the Scriptures to confirm that this is Scripturally sustained.
Q. And if he finds that the Scripture is not sustained by the books, or vice versa, what does he do?
A. The Scripture is there in support of the statement, that is why it is put there.
Q. What does a man do if he finds a disharmony between the Scripture and those books?
A. You will have to produce me a man who does find that, then I can answer, or he will answer.
Note Franz's waffling. He is unwilling, even under oath, to admit that present understanding can be in error, even though he just finished testifying that what is published as truth today may be error in a few years.
Q. Did you imply that the individual member has the right of reading the books and the Bible and forming his own view as to the proper interpretation of Holy Writ?
A. He comes - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no, and then qualify?
A. No. Do you want me to qualify now?
Q. Yes, if you wish?
A. The Scripture is there given in support of the statement, and therefore the individual when he looks up the Scripture and thereby verifies the statement, then he comes to the Scriptural view of the matter, Scriptural understanding as it is written in Acts, the seventeenth chapter and the eleventh verse, that the Bereans were more noble than those of Thessalonica in that they received the Word with all readiness, and they searched the Scripture to see whether those things were so, and we instruct to follow that noble course of the Bereans in searching the Scripture to see whether these things were so.
Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed instructions issued in the "Watchtower" or the "Informant" or "Awake"?
A. He must accept those.
Friday, September 12, 2008
Here is a copy of a letter sent by Sis CaliHavoc of Paradise Cafe to the Society on August 30, 2006.
August 30, 2006
Dear Brother Lett,
My name is Micah {Last name withheld}. I am ?? years old, and I currently live in ---------. I attend the ---------congregation. I was advised to write to you. I hope that is okay. If it is not, please pass this letter on to someone who can address my concerns.
First of all, I want to ask about the involvement of the Watchtower Society with the Rand Cam Engine Corporation. The SEC has stated that the WTBTS owned 50% of this company for over 16 years. This company is involved with making engines for fighter planes and jets and long-range capable war machines. Please explain to me how this is not a betrayal of neutrality.
http://www.geocities.com/wtgreed/article.htm
Along these same lines, please explain to me why the Society accepted monies from a trust fund from Henrietta M. Riley when those monies came from stock in Philip-Morris, a company which manufactures and distributes cigarettes.
*** g00 10/8 p. 27 Is It Wise to Invest in the Stock Market? ***
By considering the background of a company, an investor can also ensure that his money will not be used to support an unethical enterprise.—See Awake!, February 8, 1962, pages 21-3.
Secondly, I want to discuss the issue of the Watchtower Society being an NGO for the United Nations. Please do not respond that this was only to get a library card. For one thing, you have told us for decades that to join the YMCA just to use the pool would be a betrayal of our neutrality. This is no different. For another thing, it is a well documented fact by the UN that admission to the library did not necessitate joining the DPI as an NGO. And how do you explain that the Watchtower Society unknowingly met all the requirements of an NGO, including re-applying every year? Finally, please explain why Gregory Allen was listed as the WTBTS’ official representative as an NGO for the OSCE Conference as recently as June 9, 2005. http://www.randytv.com/secret/NGOduties.htm This is another betrayal of neutrality, and surely must anger Jehovah. James 4:4
Thirdly, I want to voice my distress over the issue of child molestation that has been covered over or outright ignored due to a denial by the accused or a lack of “two or three witnesses.” This is simply outrageous, and cannot be fathomed. That an organization based on Jesus’ words at John 13:34 to love one another as Christ Jesus loved us can in the same breath deny the cries of these “silent lambs” is appalling and horrifying. As a victim of physical abuse myself, having been “raised in the truth”, I can personally assure you that for a victim to come forward at all is a testament to their strength. To ignore the pleas of these little ones is truly criminal, and all who have had a share in it, to any extent, will, I am sure, answer to Jehovah. Ezek 3:19. James 1:27 tells us to look after orphans and widows. Yet here you are, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Do you really expect the thousands that have suffered abuse at the hands of fellow Christians to want to have anything to do with this religion?
Also, I would like to understand more about the blood issue. Why is it that it is suddenly okay to accept blood fractions? The Society’s stand on donating blood and storage of blood has not changed, so it would seem that you have a double standard where blood is concerned. We can accept fractions, but not whole blood; we can accept fractions of blood that is donated, yet we ourselves are not allowed to donate blood; and finally, we are allowed to accept fractions of blood that has been stored, but are not allowed to store our own blood-even if it were split apart into fractions- to be used later? I feel the current understanding of the blood issue is quite contrary to the Bible’s teaching. Either we abstain from blood- including fractions, or we do not. It seems a simple matter, yet the Society has caused mass confusion on this subject.
Another subject I would like to explore is that of the New Covenant. At 1 Timothy 2:5,6, Jehovah says that the New Covenant is between him and “men”, and that Jesus gave himself as a ransom sacrifice for “all”. There is no mention of this being just for the Anointed. Jesus Christ is also listed as the Mediator to this covenant, between God and “all” “men”. Luke 22:28-30 is where Jesus makes the covenant with his apostles for a kingdom. This is noteworthy for two reasons: One, it is a separate and distinct covenant made from the one symbolized by the bread and the wine, which happens more than eight verses earlier. Two, Jesus conducted this covenant. It was between him and his apostles (and the rest of the 144,000). Therefore, it cannot be the same covenant that he is a Mediator for, since you cannot be a Mediator for a covenant you are a party to. After seeing this evidence in the Bible itself, it is hard for me to believe that only the anointed are under the New Covenant. It is, instead, quite clear to me that all of faithful Christianity is under the New Covenant, as stated at John 3:16. The covenant for a kingdom is between Jesus and his anointed ones, and is a separate and distinct covenant than the New Covenant- between Jehovah and “all” “men”. Since we are all under the New Covenant, we should all do as Jesus commanded, and “keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19
It has also been brought to my attention that too, too often in the magazines, we are told to “thank the faithful and discrete slave”, and yet no mention is made of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Why are we not directed to thank him, to praise him, to pay attention to him, at all? “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” Phil 2:9-11 Surely, this is more important than the so called faithful and “discrete” slave patting itself on the back, yet again?
Lastly, it has come to my attention that Charles T. Russell was devoutly involved in pyramidology, and arrived at the date of 1914 by measuring the inner chambers of the Great Pyramid.
http://www.afcministry.com/The_Destructi...usalem.htm
This by itself would be troubling enough, but there is more. Several times the Society has changed dates to suit their own devices. The most recent being the debacle of 1975. Even in the last ten years the Society’s own teachings of the “generation” has changed, readjusted as the actual generation that saw 1914 rapidly declined. I have also read that when Ray Franz was a member of the governing body, that 1914 was discussed, to be replaced with 1957- the year that Sputnik went into space. As if Jehovah’s timetable was somehow affected by the doings of us puny mortals.
Since I have been reading the website of e-watchman, produced by a Brother Robert King, I have come to question the date of 1914 as being the date when Christ began to rule in heaven. This is not just because of the way the date was originally decided upon, or by the ever changing dates of significance, but largely because I don’t think Jesus would take a century to start ruling over the earth- which he has quite obviously not done. I feel that the house cleaning, and the subsequent appointment of a faithful and discreet slave is yet future. I fear that the WTBTS will not fare well when he comes to demand an accounting of his belongings.
The above mentioned subjects are only the ones I know about, and the only ones I currently have questions about. As Creator of the Universe, Jehovah will see into our hearts, and will judge accordingly. I am also troubled by the WTBTS’ constant denial of themselves as being under inspection. We are very clearly NOT living in a spiritual paradise, when our leaders betray our neutrality, waver on important issues like blood, cover up abuse and then lie about it, shun those who would try to protect the innocent by warning of lurking pedophiles, leaders who say time and again we are “God’s channel” and outcast any who dare to question the very mortal men in charge, and time and again prove to be false prophets.
Please understand I come to you with these questions because I do not want to cause divisions inside the Christian congregation. Any response would be greatly appreciated, so as to put my mind at ease. Phil. 4:6,7
Most sincerely,
Micah {Last Name Withheld}
August 30, 2006
Dear Brother Lett,
My name is Micah {Last name withheld}. I am ?? years old, and I currently live in ---------. I attend the ---------congregation. I was advised to write to you. I hope that is okay. If it is not, please pass this letter on to someone who can address my concerns.
First of all, I want to ask about the involvement of the Watchtower Society with the Rand Cam Engine Corporation. The SEC has stated that the WTBTS owned 50% of this company for over 16 years. This company is involved with making engines for fighter planes and jets and long-range capable war machines. Please explain to me how this is not a betrayal of neutrality.
http://www.geocities.com/wtgreed/article.htm
Along these same lines, please explain to me why the Society accepted monies from a trust fund from Henrietta M. Riley when those monies came from stock in Philip-Morris, a company which manufactures and distributes cigarettes.
*** g00 10/8 p. 27 Is It Wise to Invest in the Stock Market? ***
By considering the background of a company, an investor can also ensure that his money will not be used to support an unethical enterprise.—See Awake!, February 8, 1962, pages 21-3.
Secondly, I want to discuss the issue of the Watchtower Society being an NGO for the United Nations. Please do not respond that this was only to get a library card. For one thing, you have told us for decades that to join the YMCA just to use the pool would be a betrayal of our neutrality. This is no different. For another thing, it is a well documented fact by the UN that admission to the library did not necessitate joining the DPI as an NGO. And how do you explain that the Watchtower Society unknowingly met all the requirements of an NGO, including re-applying every year? Finally, please explain why Gregory Allen was listed as the WTBTS’ official representative as an NGO for the OSCE Conference as recently as June 9, 2005. http://www.randytv.com/secret/NGOduties.htm This is another betrayal of neutrality, and surely must anger Jehovah. James 4:4
Thirdly, I want to voice my distress over the issue of child molestation that has been covered over or outright ignored due to a denial by the accused or a lack of “two or three witnesses.” This is simply outrageous, and cannot be fathomed. That an organization based on Jesus’ words at John 13:34 to love one another as Christ Jesus loved us can in the same breath deny the cries of these “silent lambs” is appalling and horrifying. As a victim of physical abuse myself, having been “raised in the truth”, I can personally assure you that for a victim to come forward at all is a testament to their strength. To ignore the pleas of these little ones is truly criminal, and all who have had a share in it, to any extent, will, I am sure, answer to Jehovah. Ezek 3:19. James 1:27 tells us to look after orphans and widows. Yet here you are, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Do you really expect the thousands that have suffered abuse at the hands of fellow Christians to want to have anything to do with this religion?
Also, I would like to understand more about the blood issue. Why is it that it is suddenly okay to accept blood fractions? The Society’s stand on donating blood and storage of blood has not changed, so it would seem that you have a double standard where blood is concerned. We can accept fractions, but not whole blood; we can accept fractions of blood that is donated, yet we ourselves are not allowed to donate blood; and finally, we are allowed to accept fractions of blood that has been stored, but are not allowed to store our own blood-even if it were split apart into fractions- to be used later? I feel the current understanding of the blood issue is quite contrary to the Bible’s teaching. Either we abstain from blood- including fractions, or we do not. It seems a simple matter, yet the Society has caused mass confusion on this subject.
Another subject I would like to explore is that of the New Covenant. At 1 Timothy 2:5,6, Jehovah says that the New Covenant is between him and “men”, and that Jesus gave himself as a ransom sacrifice for “all”. There is no mention of this being just for the Anointed. Jesus Christ is also listed as the Mediator to this covenant, between God and “all” “men”. Luke 22:28-30 is where Jesus makes the covenant with his apostles for a kingdom. This is noteworthy for two reasons: One, it is a separate and distinct covenant made from the one symbolized by the bread and the wine, which happens more than eight verses earlier. Two, Jesus conducted this covenant. It was between him and his apostles (and the rest of the 144,000). Therefore, it cannot be the same covenant that he is a Mediator for, since you cannot be a Mediator for a covenant you are a party to. After seeing this evidence in the Bible itself, it is hard for me to believe that only the anointed are under the New Covenant. It is, instead, quite clear to me that all of faithful Christianity is under the New Covenant, as stated at John 3:16. The covenant for a kingdom is between Jesus and his anointed ones, and is a separate and distinct covenant than the New Covenant- between Jehovah and “all” “men”. Since we are all under the New Covenant, we should all do as Jesus commanded, and “keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19
It has also been brought to my attention that too, too often in the magazines, we are told to “thank the faithful and discrete slave”, and yet no mention is made of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Why are we not directed to thank him, to praise him, to pay attention to him, at all? “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” Phil 2:9-11 Surely, this is more important than the so called faithful and “discrete” slave patting itself on the back, yet again?
Lastly, it has come to my attention that Charles T. Russell was devoutly involved in pyramidology, and arrived at the date of 1914 by measuring the inner chambers of the Great Pyramid.
http://www.afcministry.com/The_Destructi...usalem.htm
This by itself would be troubling enough, but there is more. Several times the Society has changed dates to suit their own devices. The most recent being the debacle of 1975. Even in the last ten years the Society’s own teachings of the “generation” has changed, readjusted as the actual generation that saw 1914 rapidly declined. I have also read that when Ray Franz was a member of the governing body, that 1914 was discussed, to be replaced with 1957- the year that Sputnik went into space. As if Jehovah’s timetable was somehow affected by the doings of us puny mortals.
Since I have been reading the website of e-watchman, produced by a Brother Robert King, I have come to question the date of 1914 as being the date when Christ began to rule in heaven. This is not just because of the way the date was originally decided upon, or by the ever changing dates of significance, but largely because I don’t think Jesus would take a century to start ruling over the earth- which he has quite obviously not done. I feel that the house cleaning, and the subsequent appointment of a faithful and discreet slave is yet future. I fear that the WTBTS will not fare well when he comes to demand an accounting of his belongings.
The above mentioned subjects are only the ones I know about, and the only ones I currently have questions about. As Creator of the Universe, Jehovah will see into our hearts, and will judge accordingly. I am also troubled by the WTBTS’ constant denial of themselves as being under inspection. We are very clearly NOT living in a spiritual paradise, when our leaders betray our neutrality, waver on important issues like blood, cover up abuse and then lie about it, shun those who would try to protect the innocent by warning of lurking pedophiles, leaders who say time and again we are “God’s channel” and outcast any who dare to question the very mortal men in charge, and time and again prove to be false prophets.
Please understand I come to you with these questions because I do not want to cause divisions inside the Christian congregation. Any response would be greatly appreciated, so as to put my mind at ease. Phil. 4:6,7
Most sincerely,
Micah {Last Name Withheld}
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